tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8149753438637467857.post7200613806002562756..comments2022-11-14T00:22:54.317-08:00Comments on The Permie Homestead Blog: Thoughts on Civil DisobedienceKylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17407379092877118260noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8149753438637467857.post-69078899938166008102009-11-23T12:46:18.959-08:002009-11-23T12:46:18.959-08:00thanks kyle, i'll read it this week.
i know ...thanks kyle, i'll read it this week. <br /><br />i know all too well the horrors of the HOA fascists. i just moved out of a townhouse complex where we were cited for every rule in the book, and many many more that weren't in any book. i swear i'll never live under that regime again!<br /><br />cheers. have a good monday!markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10633683193532132617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8149753438637467857.post-1523419954351759072009-11-23T12:13:58.616-08:002009-11-23T12:13:58.616-08:00Also Mark, I encourage you to read "Civil Dis...Also Mark, I encourage you to read "Civil Disobedience" as soon as you have the time. It is an essay that comes in just under 9500 words, so it shouldn't take too long, even if you read it slowly and deliberately (which you should, it's pretty dense). You can find it at this link: http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.htmlKylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17407379092877118260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8149753438637467857.post-40208242947746948582009-11-23T12:08:47.224-08:002009-11-23T12:08:47.224-08:00I intentionally stay a bit vague when I refer to &...I intentionally stay a bit vague when I refer to "the government." Mostly because I have readers like you who live in Canada and elsewhere, but also because (as you very effectively pointed out) local governments have more of an impact on what kind of permaculture, urban homesteading, etc., that one is able to practice where they are. So I posed it as a question, hopefully to spark thought about where an individual lives and how they are governed.<br /><br />As far as neighborhood associations, or in the US the dreaded Homeowner's Associations (which is essentially the same, but they are usually staffed by the most self-righteous and non-tolerant of anyone's neighbors instead of people who are interested in community... cue scary music) are certainly forms of government. Any body of people attempting to govern the way that an individual lives in and uses their space, money, time, etc., is a form of government in my book. And despite attention being paid overmuch to national politics, local governments are the ones which have the most impact on our day to day lives. I doubt the US FDA will ever really know or care whether or not I have chickens in my backyard (and if they did care I doubt they'd really be able to do anything about it), but the Calibri Neighborhood Association certainly does.<br /><br />Finally, good for you for telling them to go screw and have some pears. Hopefully your delicious fruits will plant the seeds of sustainability into your neighborhood association. (Sorry, I like to get cheesy once in a while.)Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17407379092877118260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8149753438637467857.post-35517467210198350562009-11-23T11:50:02.345-08:002009-11-23T11:50:02.345-08:00I read 'walden' years ago, but haven't...I read 'walden' years ago, but haven't yet got around to 'civil disobedience' yet. I'll try to check it out sometime-- you make it sound pretty worthwhile. <br /><br />"Do you agree that permaculture can be considered civil or social disobedience?"<br /><br />Social-- absolutely. You don't have to be a guerilla gardener to be a deviant permie-type. The very ideas of self sufficiency and sustainability run counter to the current of Western society. Subscribing to the beliefs we have is 'disobedient' in a way, even though what we do positively affects society in virtually every way. I'd say gardening in general isn't necessarily subversive, but permaculture methods represent a divergence from popular gardening culture, as you know. So, yeah, permaculture is social disobedience. By opting-out of the dollar economy, we're basically throwing that social contract in with the compost-- in contemporary society anyway. <br /><br />Is it civil disobedience? I think things get muddied up here. You talk a lot about 'the government'-- but I think you need to go deeper. Here in Canada, the federal government does a great job at things like managing wilderness and natnl parks, and they don't really dictate what i can and can't do with the property I live on (with the notable exception of restricting one crop i'd really like to grow :))<br /><br />At the county and municipal level, yeah, you have to be a little disobedient to get things done. We have chickens on our city lot-- until recently that was against a city bylaw. neighbourhood associations-- another form of government?-- repeatedly tell us we can't grow in the front yard. We just say 'fuck you, have some of our pears' and don't worry about it much, but it's definitely civilly disobedient.<br /><br />A lot of times these acts of civil disobedience are necessary to bring about change. All it takes is one publicized event to change public perception, and then the policy makers usually listen-- esp if it's an election year :)<br /><br />without having read the book, can i take a guess at his main point? that constant civil disobedience is necessary to maintain a government that responds to the will of its citizens.. ?<br />I certainly believe this is so.markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10633683193532132617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8149753438637467857.post-20306076842416376482009-11-22T20:14:58.941-08:002009-11-22T20:14:58.941-08:00I just remembered I have a bookmark to an awesome ...I just remembered I have a bookmark to an awesome resource on H.D. Thoreau, if anyone is interested in reading some of his work. Check it out at http://thoreau.eserver.org/default.htmlKylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17407379092877118260noreply@blogger.com